Jesus is destroying civilization

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Re: Jesus is destroying civilization

by Alx3m » Sat May 31, 2014 7:58 pm

So as discussed here : http://math.stackexchange.com/questions ... mbinations
it is not known whether Pi contains all possible sentences or not.
First of all, Jesus could prove Pi is a normal number/contains all digits, 'cause Jesus.
Meaning, if Pi has every word, for any true sentence in it, there is also the negation of this sentence.
So I don't think that technically, Jesus correctly grants the person's wish.
I think Jesus is a bit of a evil genie in this comic. Jesus technically grants his wish, but in a way no information can make it to the future.

Re: Jesus is destroying civilization

by kst » Sun May 25, 2014 3:08 am

Nerd wrote:Being a nerd, I was always amazed at the possibilities of the HTTP/PI protocol. Given a way to translate a message to digits, you technically only need to specify an index to transmit any message you want, even if you need to use up-arrow notation for that..
The problem, of course, is that on average you'd need at least as many bits to represent the index as you'd need to represent the message directly.

Re: Jesus is destroying civilization

by Guest » Fri May 09, 2014 3:40 am

Meh, and I just googles that...

Re: Jesus is destroying civilization

by jake » Fri May 09, 2014 12:56 am

Guest wrote:
Nerd wrote:
Njol wrote:Being a nerd I should inform you that it's not possible to compress all words (e.g. HTML documents) to a smaller size - at least half of them will end up being larger, no matter what compression algorithm is used (including finding the word in pi and storing "only" the offset + length). So you should probably stick to gzip or bzip2 for now ;)
You are technically inaccurate because even for <b>lossless</b> compression, all words in a text document (HTML, etc) can indeed be compressed to a smaller size, because of ANSI or UNICODE being inefficient codifications, natural languages such as english having a pretty low entropy (2.3bits/character), and the regular structure of HTML documents.

That aside, HTTP/PI is not a compression mechanism, is a protocol. Note that you don't need to specify the length, because being a valid HTTP packet, it already contains the length field and ending delimiters inside the sequence. This makes the protocol immune to 'heartbleed'-type attacks.
Well, in order to state that all HTML documents can be compressed, you have to assume that all of them have something in common. For example, that they all contain the string <html>.
If no assumption is made about the document, then some can't be compressed. So it's not technically false.

So, what's that HTTP/PI protocol ?
Hyper Text Transfer Protocol/Private Investigator Protocol.

Re: Jesus is destroying civilization

by Guest » Wed May 07, 2014 5:10 pm

Nerd wrote:
Njol wrote:Being a nerd I should inform you that it's not possible to compress all words (e.g. HTML documents) to a smaller size - at least half of them will end up being larger, no matter what compression algorithm is used (including finding the word in pi and storing "only" the offset + length). So you should probably stick to gzip or bzip2 for now ;)
You are technically inaccurate because even for <b>lossless</b> compression, all words in a text document (HTML, etc) can indeed be compressed to a smaller size, because of ANSI or UNICODE being inefficient codifications, natural languages such as english having a pretty low entropy (2.3bits/character), and the regular structure of HTML documents.

That aside, HTTP/PI is not a compression mechanism, is a protocol. Note that you don't need to specify the length, because being a valid HTTP packet, it already contains the length field and ending delimiters inside the sequence. This makes the protocol immune to 'heartbleed'-type attacks.
Well, in order to state that all HTML documents can be compressed, you have to assume that all of them have something in common. For example, that they all contain the string <html>.
If no assumption is made about the document, then some can't be compressed. So it's not technically false.

So, what's that HTTP/PI protocol ?

Re: Jesus is destroying civilization

by Nerd » Wed May 07, 2014 12:29 pm

Njol wrote:Being a nerd I should inform you that it's not possible to compress all words (e.g. HTML documents) to a smaller size - at least half of them will end up being larger, no matter what compression algorithm is used (including finding the word in pi and storing "only" the offset + length). So you should probably stick to gzip or bzip2 for now ;)
You are technically inaccurate because even for <b>lossless</b> compression, all words in a text document (HTML, etc) can indeed be compressed to a smaller size, because of ANSI or UNICODE being inefficient codifications, natural languages such as english having a pretty low entropy (2.3bits/character), and the regular structure of HTML documents.

That aside, HTTP/PI is not a compression mechanism, is a protocol. Note that you don't need to specify the length, because being a valid HTTP packet, it already contains the length field and ending delimiters inside the sequence. This makes the protocol immune to 'heartbleed'-type attacks.

Re: Jesus is destroying civilization

by Njol » Tue May 06, 2014 6:30 pm

Nerd wrote:Being a nerd, I was always amazed at the possibilities of the HTTP/PI protocol. Given a way to translate a message to digits, you technically only need to specify an index to transmit any message you want, even if you need to use up-arrow notation for that.
Of course, being a nerd I also know that π is an historical accident, and that the real number that should be taught and used in math equations is tau (τ).
Being a nerd I should inform you that it's not possible to compress all words (e.g. HTML documents) to a smaller size - at least half of them will end up being larger, no matter what compression algorithm is used (including finding the word in pi and storing "only" the offset + length). So you should probably stick to gzip or bzip2 for now ;)

Re: Jesus is destroying civilization

by Epoch Four » Sun May 04, 2014 5:50 am

I nerd, you nerd, we all nerd for cares nerd!

Re: Jesus is destroying civilization

by GUTCHUCKER » Sun May 04, 2014 1:52 am

I don't know what it means to care nerd, but I'm sure I would care nerd if I knew. I probably cared nerd in the past at least once.

Re: Jesus is destroying civilization

by Quentin » Sat May 03, 2014 8:22 pm

maskedscavenger wrote:I just feel like I've been trolled, as Zach's "exclusive The Nib comic" is painfully wrong !

It's here : https://medium.com/the-nib/a2ac3c553d47

So as discussed here : http://math.stackexchange.com/questions ... mbinations
it is not known whether Pi contains all possible sentences or not.
And even if it is the case, it does contain all knowledge separated by a semi-colon, but also all non-knowledge.
Meaning, if Pi has every word, for any true sentence in it, there is also the negation of this sentence.
So I don't think that technically, Jesus correctly grants the person's wish.
who cares nerd?

Re: Jesus is destroying civilization

by maskedscavenger » Fri May 02, 2014 7:22 pm

Nerd wrote:Being a nerd, I was always amazed at the possibilities of the HTTP/PI protocol. Given a way to translate a message to digits, you technically only need to specify an index to transmit any message you want, even if you need to use up-arrow notation for that.
Of course, being a nerd I also know that π is an historical accident, and that the real number that should be taught and used in math equations is tau (τ).
What is the HTTP/PI protocol ???? And how does the up-arrow notation get mixed up with this ?

Speaking of τ vs π, the current state of affairs is that τ = 2π.
But I don't like the visuals of it.
Really, we should swap the constants to get the beautiful
π = 2τ
Just because the π character has twice as many legs as τ

Re: Jesus is destroying civilization

by Nerd » Fri May 02, 2014 3:52 pm

Being a nerd, I was always amazed at the possibilities of the HTTP/PI protocol. Given a way to translate a message to digits, you technically only need to specify an index to transmit any message you want, even if you need to use up-arrow notation for that.
Of course, being a nerd I also know that π is an historical accident, and that the real number that should be taught and used in math equations is tau (τ).

Re: Jesus is destroying civilization

by maskedscavenger » Thu May 01, 2014 8:13 pm

Ah thank you for helping me tone down my anger.
Indeed, it doesn't seem that a number needs to be normal to express every sentence.
In particular, some numbers that have uniformely distributed digits and contain every sentence in some base, but not in another (hence they're not normal).
I also agree that since sentences are language dependent, bullshit needs to be included in a string of 'all knowledge', as
one can define a language in which all the truths are expressed by the bullshit sentences of another language.
I guess it was the dude's responsibility to be more specific about this language...

However, I'm still mad that an unproven conjecture is taken as true in the comic.
As far as I know, we don't know if Pi has all sentence, normal or not.
That is, unless it is implicitly assumed that the conjecture is true and that Jesus knows it, begin superior and all.

Re: Jesus is destroying civilization

by Lupk » Thu May 01, 2014 4:23 pm

Does the comic go out on a limb claiming that Pi is contains any finite string of numbers? Yes. However, the normality of a real number is more concerned with the probability, or distribution of those strings rather than their existence. All normal numbers contain all finite strings of numbers, but I don't think a number containing all strings needs to be normal. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Besides that, most answers in StackExchange are spot on. I specially suggest reading Jorge Luis Borges' "The Library of Babel" as it has a very simple narrative describing the problem of infinite random permutations of characters.
In any event, assuming Pi does indeed contain all numbers, then it still has all knowledge mixed with a bunch of nonsense and bullshit, which still is all knowledge. Literal asshole genie and all. Hell, I'll borrow a thought from Borges and point out that all possible words are the only way to communicate all knowledge in every possible language, since the particular tongue wasn't specified by this random dude.

Jesus is destroying civilization

by maskedscavenger » Thu May 01, 2014 3:29 pm

I just feel like I've been trolled, as Zach's "exclusive The Nib comic" is painfully wrong !

It's here : https://medium.com/the-nib/a2ac3c553d47

So as discussed here : http://math.stackexchange.com/questions ... mbinations
it is not known whether Pi contains all possible sentences or not.
And even if it is the case, it does contain all knowledge separated by a semi-colon, but also all non-knowledge.
Meaning, if Pi has every word, for any true sentence in it, there is also the negation of this sentence.
So I don't think that technically, Jesus correctly grants the person's wish.

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