Christmas Cheer

[AHMETxRock]

Why do we keep pumping out low quality material constanyly, on a premise that is false?

And by that, I mean Christmas. More people believe in santa than George Bush.
That, I can get behind.

But what's the point? If santa isn't real, why do we constantly pump up this mentality in the minds of our youth?
Why do we attempt to pass off these values as something we need to have direly?

[mountainmage]

You could replace Christmas with any deity, they're all being pumped into some youth or another (that sounded wrong, but oh well). Some religions just capitalize on their deity more than other religions.

[ruotwocone]

dude, christmas is the best. i'm an atheist, but since christmas is a national holiday, it is by definition non-religious. huzzah for taking the christ out of christmas and replacing him with santa! presents, candy, and cheesy songs/movies here i come baby!

[Sahan]

Hehe, I learnt Santa wasn't real when I saw my parents coming back from the shops with a plastic bag which I could see contained toys inside them, and then getting those same toys whn I opened my presents on Christmas Day. It didn't bother me though, because I still got the toys. My parents never made me believe in Santa, I think the first time I asked them if he was real they went straight out and told me that they just bought gifts for me at Christmas time. No false hopes, no disappointment.

[Frostbite]

Ahmet, do you ever stop trying to pretend to be a sophisticated pretentious ass?

[mountainmage]

[AHMETxRock]

Your image isn't working.

Call me pretentios for not supporting such a stupid campaign. So much effort is put into propogating this false image into children.
Fact: Santa isn't real. So why the heck do we put so much into these kids minds? Do we think lying to them makes things better?

Am I a pretentious ass for not taking children and lying to them about some man that goes around giving them things for free? Am I pretentious that when confronted with the truth, we attempt to dissuade them from believing in fact, and instead insist they rely on feeling and rhetoric? Is it wrong to set up these children so fast, then to expect them to give up on this beautiful fantasy that everyone lives in, and to keep it going to decieve others?

Do you understand what kind of society does this? Do you understand how being raised this way affects you?

Do you try to understand what happens, or would you rather do whatever the hell you want, scorn those that have been wronged, and when you turn up to be the main offender, decide to scapegoat the blame?

That when you build a house without a foundation, with straws, who do you blame when a gentle breeze so easily knocks it over?

Or, if this reply seems to pretentious of you, try this retort:
I'm rubber your glue. Whatever you say bounces off to me and sticks to you.

[Sahan]

Your image isn't working.

Call me pretentios for not supporting such a stupid campaign. So much effort is put into propogating this false image into children.
Fact: Santa isn't real. So why the heck do we put so much into these kids minds? Do we think lying to them makes things better?

Am I a pretentious ass for not taking children and lying to them about some man that goes around giving them things for free? Am I pretentious that when confronted with the truth, we attempt to dissuade them from believing in fact, and instead insist they rely on feeling and rhetoric? Is it wrong to set up these children so fast, then to expect them to give up on this beautiful fantasy that everyone lives in, and to keep it going to decieve others?

Do you understand what kind of society does this? Do you understand how being raised this way affects you?

Do you try to understand what happens, or would you rather do whatever the hell you want, scorn those that have been wronged, and when you turn up to be the main offender, decide to scapegoat the blame?

That when you build a house without a foundation, with straws, who do you blame when a gentle breeze so easily knocks it over?

Or, if this reply seems to pretentious of you, try this retort:
I'm rubber your glue. Whatever you say bounces off to me and sticks to you.

Calm down, guys. I think Ahmet just got the 'Santa doesn't exist' talk. He's just trying to vent some steam about the news on the forum.

[Kidd]

So, I may be new here, but I'm starting to pick up on the way the board runs.

Everyone- Types a little, gets the point across (if there is one), all happy times to be had.

Ahmet- Long post, no point (or if there is a point, I'd rather eat a bullet than try to figure it out), makes me want to log into CS:S and Dualie some mo-fos.

[Frostbite]

So I guess you'll stop playing video games too, huh? Because those characters aren't real, even if they do bring joy to you.

[mountainmage]

For my English class one of our papers was partly about the propagation of certain beliefs. Two example we were given were that children and money both bring happiness. Children and money, it was found, don't bring the happiness many claim they do. But you know what would happen if these beliefs didn't continue? Our society would fucking collapse, that's what. Now I'm not saying that if we all stop believing in Santa, our society will collapse, but what I am saying is that it has no negative effects on anyone, and in a way it stimulates our economy, because parents buy presents for kids for Christmas. Honestly, have you ever heard of a kid being traumatized when they found out he was fake? That they then went on to need psychiatric help?

An interesting thought:

[...] about whether lying to your kids about Santa is a good thing to do. Does it teach them that lying is OK? Does it make them doubt other things you expect them to take on faith, namely your religious beliefs? And is it traumatic for them?

i see it more as a game. You can explain games to kids. When the game ends -- when you know the truth -- are you really upset that you played the game? I wasn't. I understood that the story of Jesus was not a game. That we took that very seriously, but that Santa was just fun and games. As was the Easter Bunny, which is what really kills the whole thing. It's just not feasible!

I wholly endorse playing this game with kiddos. I see no harm. If kids are traumatized by it, I suspect it's because parents take it too seriously and lie too much. The point of the game isn't to see whose kids believe the longest, it's to create a sense of magic for the kids. Once their friends start asking questions at school, you end the game to keep the kids from looking silly. Is that really such a dangerous trick to play on kiddos?

[Lethal Interjection]

I personally will not be doing the Santa thing with my kids. I can't believe it, but I'm actually kind of on Ahmet's side on this one (though he is, typically, planting his feet on the ground, ready with long posts and retorts for a fight that no one is really having).
I have no recollection of ever having believed it, myself. I don't remember if it was that my parents didn't really propogate it, or if I was too mature (or doubtful or "smart") for my own good (which sounds self-aggrandizing, but it is relatively true, often to my chagrin). My sister did believe, I remember.
That said, I don't know how I will handle it when the time comes. Because the touchy issue is that I don't want to be the bastard parent who tells my kids that Santa doesn't exist, only for them to go to school, and spoil the "fun" for the rest of the kids at school.

[Frostbite]

I believed it simply for the fact that I didn't think my parents could afford to buy all that stuff.

[AHMETxRock]

Alright. Mountain mage has a good point there.
See, I already have my standpoint on this issue. I'm bringing up actual discussion.

And Lethal is right. Why the heck should I look bad for not making a nonsense arguement?

Also, did anyone see Christmas with the Kranks? I think that's all the proof I need to show I'm right.

Short, to the point. And the point is in Kidd's eye this time. Frostbite is still recovering from the frostbite.My rapier wit!

[ruotwocone]

Also, did anyone see Christmas with the Kranks? I think that's all the proof I need to show I'm right.

that movie is proof that i'm right. people complain about christmas all the time. "ooh, it's so overcommercialized" "it's so much stress" blah blah blah. christmas is the one time of year when almost everybody feels obligated to treat other people like human beings. watching garbage movies and singing terrible songs is all part of the fun and the experience.

people need to stop whining about it and just embrace it... and I know you dumb asses are the same people who rag on valentines day. holidays are more fun if you just go with it.