Killing Yourself

[Sahan]

I remember when I started to get depressed and considered suicide, but I was trying to think of a way to do it that would be inconspicuous to set up and not be particularly messy to whoever had to clean it up. Of course when I started thinking about who's going to clean up afterwards, I felt very guilty and decided never again to contemplate it, which I am of course very grateful for now. I'd also suggest to maybe go off the drugs Fenghar, I believe emotions are there for an evolutionary reason, and I think your case shows that trying to mess with them only blocks your ability to protect yourself. Being upset isn't nearly as bad as not having control over oneself.

[AHMETxRock]

Um, the evolutionary thing doesn't actually find value in an individual's life. In fact, that theory would state that if he had a defect in his head that would cause him to be prone to death, he should be allowed to die. So I'm going to need to say stop it.

We had a discussion in class about homosexuality, based on a Shortpacked comic I read, where I ask how if homosexuality is genetic, would it not just simply cease to exist once they stop breeding. Essentially, having the genetic code does not even mean it will express itself, and the concurrence rate in families where an older brother identifying as gay increases the chance that the other younger brothers would also identify as gay, without any noticeable genetic difference from families in which the first did not identify as gay.

Nature vs. Nurture has most recently been found to be complete bullshit. It is a yin-yang thing where both influence the other. The evolutionary excuse is not necessary and that argument is extremely harmful. Emotions do have a purpose, but anything to the extreme aside from sports and Muslim activism needs to be addressed.

[LordRetard]

Well, I have a bunch of problems with what you said, but I'll stick to a few so I don't get sidetracked.

-Homosexuality isn't shown to have a definite genetic component, and, as you have mentioned, both genetics and environmental factors are believed to influence it.
-Symptoms of depression can be found in many animals and may have an evolutionary cause; this is suggested by the prevalence of Seasonal Affective Disorder as well as. Of course, even if it were evolved. Furthermore, it may have cultural purposes; culture-bound syndromes have very interesting causes and treatments.
-Anti-depressants aren't always necessary or even a good idea. As it has been mentioned repeatedly, there is a marked increase in attempted suicides among users of anti-depressants. Depression can also be resistant to anti-depressants and other treatments. Anti-depressants are not always the way to go because they can have a lot of side effects.

FUN FACT: Apparently DXM (ingredient in some dry cough remedies) is making grounds as an anti-depressant medication, which is probably why everyone loves drinking cough syrup (hahah not really)! Doses of ketamine and DXM apparently work for much longer and sometimes more effectively than other treatments, but apparently the hallucinations that they cause have been a hindrance. Huh.

[AHMETxRock]

Utter bullshit man. Utter bullshit. Stating there is an evolutionary "reason*" means it is there either to give a benefit or has been an advantage at some time.
And, saying it may have an evolutionary benefit is (guess what) utter bullshit. Any trait might have an advantage! Darker skin color helped people in Africa. It has been found that those with Down Syndrome are often resistant to cancerous mutations! We might have a dormant gene that in hundreds of years might make a difference.
That is the entire concept of evolution, how a gene or trait gives some sort of advantage. However, stating that one has a genetic disposition to kill oneself or cause unnecessary harm unto oneself is absurd. Sahan's mentioning of emotions having an evolutionary background was correct, but not in the context of suicide. Sadness, joy, anger. These are okay. Depression, mania, maybe psychosis. These would be inferior flaws in the genetic code, much like a tendency for alzheimer's disease.
I have real depression. Not the pansy ass, I'm currently sad so maybe that's depression kind of bullshit. It runs in my mother's side of the family, luckily skipping my mother. This being stated, as I have a personal vestment in knowing, provide me with some sort of idea how depression, not just sadness, can be beneficial from an evolutionary standpoint. Even if I disagree, if the argument is founded in logic, I will accept it. Otherwise, you utter bullshit.
(Like how I used the verb form of utter? Word play.)

*Edit: just for clarification, words like cause, purpose, and other nonsense are applicable here.

[cheez.wiz]

Seasonal Affective Disorder

I has the S.A.D. and i approve of this message.

[FengharTheNord]

I read all what you guys wrote and I'm kinda confused as to what you guys are arguing about but I have to take my meds because I'm probably one of the few cases where I do indeed just have a chemical imbalance(least that's what the therapist and doctahs and whoseamawhatchits say). That's not to say that environmental factors don't have a strong influence on my well-being, but I would be able to handle them better if I wasn't already predisposed towards taking things to hard. My mom has a chemical imbalance and is and has been on depression medication for the majority of her life and pretty much everyone in my family has depression or insanity or bi-polar disorder or are just undiagnosed fuck-ups.

I need to take my meds. Plus, the withdraw would be a bitch and if I did want to get off them I wouldn't do it right now on account of my current instability and what have you.

[Kimra]

Hey Fenghar,

I've been catching back up on the forum and actively avoiding this topic until now. Mostly because I try to avoid things about depression, because it (strangely enough) depresses me.

Keep taking your meds. Do whatever it is the doctors are telling you you need to do. Everyone here just likes to argue about things, so they'll keep arguing about them. I hate medication, I never wanted to be on medication, but my doctor talked me around to it because, in the end, it made more sense. If medication is what gives you the greatest chance of being happy and making safe rational decisions then you should take them. But I can see you've already made it plain you will keep taking them, so this rant is rather supercilious.

I am glad you failed to kill yourself. Of all things in the world that was the test you where meant to fail, and although I hardly know you I am so happy that you are still alive and with us.

Any chance of me considering suicide in any long and lingering sense disappeared when my very close cousin (who was the same age as me) killed himself when I was fifteen. Being part of the family left behind has given me more enlightenment than I ever wanted on the topic. If you ever think, even for a second, about it again (I know that you say you wont today, but with depression there is often a see saw effect) be sure to reach out to absolutely everyone around you. I know you know this, I'm sure you've heard it enough recently, but I just have to say it. I barely know you, I'm on the other side of the world, but even I'll be here if you need me.

Anyway, all my ranting aside. I am glad you are alive, and I hope that your recovery progresses well. I have been on medication (which has helped me a great deal over the years) for some time, and I am slowly, but surely repairing myself. So the best of luck, look after yourself and dont forget to rely on the people around you, that's totally what they are there for.

Kimra

p.s. please forgive the rambling reply I expect a lot of tldr's out of it

[FengharTheNord]

I love you guys

[Euclidthegreek]

Um, the evolutionary thing doesn't actually find value in an individual's life. In fact, that theory would state that if he had a defect in his head that would cause him to be prone to death, he should be allowed to die. So I'm going to need to say stop it.

We had a discussion in class about homosexuality, based on a Shortpacked comic I read, where I ask how if homosexuality is genetic, would it not just simply cease to exist once they stop breeding. Essentially, having the genetic code does not even mean it will express itself, and the concurrence rate in families where an older brother identifying as gay increases the chance that the other younger brothers would also identify as gay, without any noticeable genetic difference from families in which the first did not identify as gay.

I'm sort of confused about what you're trying to say, but there actually is an evolutionary advantage (or at least not a disadvantage) from homosexuality. If you have one kid, that passes about 50% of your genes to the next generation. If a sibling has a kid, 25% of your genes are passed on. So if your sibling has two kids, you have been just as successful as if you had one. This is a simple example of why animals help their relatives. How is this relevant to the discussion? Some researchers think that gay animals, while not reproducing themselves, assist siblings to find and maintain mates, enabling the siblings to have more children, thus continuing the descent. This is the way in which homosexuality* remains present in life.

*Assuming that it has a genetic basis.

I love you guys

I love you too, Fenghar

[mountainmage]

Everyone here just likes to argue about things, so they'll keep arguing about them.

I respectfully disagree.

[LordRetard]

Utter bullshit man. Utter bullshit. Stating there is an evolutionary "reason*" means it is there either to give a benefit or has been an advantage at some time.
And, saying it may have an evolutionary benefit is (guess what) utter bullshit. Any trait might have an advantage! Darker skin color helped people in Africa. It has been found that those with Down Syndrome are often resistant to cancerous mutations! We might have a dormant gene that in hundreds of years might make a difference.
That is the entire concept of evolution, how a gene or trait gives some sort of advantage. However, stating that one has a genetic disposition to kill oneself or cause unnecessary harm unto oneself is absurd. Sahan's mentioning of emotions having an evolutionary background was correct, but not in the context of suicide. Sadness, joy, anger. These are okay. Depression, mania, maybe psychosis. These would be inferior flaws in the genetic code, much like a tendency for alzheimer's disease.
I have real depression. Not the pansy ass, I'm currently sad so maybe that's depression kind of bullshit. It runs in my mother's side of the family, luckily skipping my mother. This being stated, as I have a personal vestment in knowing, provide me with some sort of idea how depression, not just sadness, can be beneficial from an evolutionary standpoint. Even if I disagree, if the argument is founded in logic, I will accept it. Otherwise, you utter bullshit.
(Like how I used the verb form of utter? Word play.)

*Edit: just for clarification, words like cause, purpose, and other nonsense are applicable here.

Sorry man. Don't know what to say, I'm just talking about what little I know. Everything happens for a reason. I don't know maybe your family should've died out centuries ago if it was that bad. I'm not trying to be rude about it, that just makes the most sense to me. But you're definitely alive, so it must mean something. I dunno. It's not as if we really understand why depression may have evolved or how it necessarily happens, but it's around, so that means something. Everything balances out.

My family, we've got the alcoholism but I don't know if that really even matters. It's not that strange for where we come from, anyway.

[mountainmage]

Mankind has advanced far enough that even people with genetic defects can go on living, as well as reproducing.

[LordRetard]

Mankind has advanced far enough that even people with genetic defects can go on living, as well as reproducing.

Yeah, but these aren't necessarily new diseases, some have been around for a very long time.

[mountainmage]

Yeah, but I think the solutions back then were a little more primitive. Like lobotomies, leeches, and rest cures.

[smiley_cow]

Or drilling a hole in people's head to get demons out. I mean everyone knows that luring it out with a piece of meat is much more effective anyways.