Feminism, sexism, iraq, and your mom's fat.

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Feminism, sexism, iraq, and your mom's fat.

Postby AHMETxRock » Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:21 am

It is as foolish to say that feminists advocate equality as it is to state that all Muslims are terrorists..

No,, that wasn''t a typo,, although I''m being a god damned Irony Ninja all up in this bitch,, so yeah there is.. But seriously, the ""feminism isn''t necessarily bad"" idea is stupid.. I''ve mentioned that there is a difference between identifying as a feminist and actually following feminist doctrine ((closest word I can find))..

Something that enrages me is the concept of racism and reverse racism.. See,, I had this black woman teacher than claimed that racism can only be done by the white majority, while acts of racism by minorities are REVERSE racism. Now, to elaborate, the concept is that the majority is the group that holds power, and the act of racism is depriving chances of advancement to those of the minority group. Reverse racism is the act of those of the minority excluding those of the majority from the activities that the minority do have control over.

There are several major problems with this theory. Firstly, it justifies the act of "reverse racism", which I do not see a true distinction from "racism" or what I like to call "when anybody ELSE does it-ism". The general pooling of power and the interactions between those of the hierarchy above and below matters not on an individualistic case by case basis. You see, I was taught judging an individual because of the fact they belonged to a group of people who were "blacks" or "gays" was wrong.

I acknowledge I benefit from racism even as I fight against it (as a white dude, not as a muslim, let's not even get on that track yet). However, the idea that there is a distinction is retarded yo. I mean, like, how politically inaccurate. That's like, so gay. Must've been some immigrant who thought of that shit, cause seriously, I don't think a woman could have been that dumb, or had enough time out of the kitchen to go to school. LOL ANYWAYS

There is definately a dynamic at work that gives SOME basis to this theory, of course. Small things, such as a black man having the store owner having him be watched closely while white customers can freely browse the magazines or music rows or whatever. This exists. I am aware of this. This is a fact. It does not, in any way, actually support the concept of reverse racism.

During my readings about women and attraction, I learned about the money/power complex. You see, when we are young, a man who with a car, a job, and the ability to easily access forbidden things like alcohol and cigarrettes is attractive because they prosper among those with no money or cars. Ten years later it means crap. You can drive yourself down to the store and buy your own smokes with your own money after work. To be seen as equivalently powerful, you'd need to be a mob boss with your own private jet, with access to prostitutes, good cocaine, other shit I dunno. Or maybe a CEO with a nice house and a limo and they got a chef, or a really big dick, but hey, let's not be ridiculous.

Now before we say "Hey man you're a sexist, I'm not gonna listen to you hate on Feminists because THAT'S YOUR PLAN ALL ALONG EMPEROR PALPATINE, go open a window while I fetch you a hankerchief so that you can recover from the case of vapors having a vagina leaves you succeptable to. God damn, how the hell am I going to keep my house insulated if I keep a window open? Same thing with vaginas and common sense. Anyways, this is just initial attraction, and as long as you aren't severely lacking in the power/money complex it won't hurt your chance with ladies. Just tell me how many cute homeless men you've dated and I'll shut up. (Please don't, I want to believe someone has a worse love life than I do)

There comes a point where a girl's perceptions of wealth and power become relative not to her situation, but the WORLD's situation, and that is maturity. That is what we consider REAL power and REAL wealth and REAL influence. However, if a spaceship arrived with the god damn fountain of youth, teleportation watches they're selling, and they got SUPER GOLD and plasma beams, we'd have to develop a new idea of what power and wealth is. It is more important than it sounds. When learning about WW1 and WW2, were we not all told we expected for the war to end quickly because of our new awesome weapons technology? In fact, it was far more grueling, because our opponents had the same abilities, but our ability to survive sure as hell didn't get any better.

What the hell am I saying, huh? Why did I mention war and attraction and racism if we're talking about feminism? Is it because all of it is men's fault? Well yes, but shut up, I'm done with the tangent and now I'm triangulating the hypotenuse of this god damn moose back to my point.

Refer to the definitions of racism and reverse racism, and you'll see the definitions are rooted around the concepts of power/influence. But as I hope I have illustrated, the idea of power and influence is relative! Is is constantly changing! It is fluid, and it is as it is percieved and acted upon. That is important. It is relative, based on how it is percieved and acted upon. The idea that there is a difference between reverse racism and regular racism is the holding and withholding of power is relevant.

What infuriates me is that I am an individual. The flaw of racist logic is that I take circumstance or attributes or conditions or events and project them on members somehow relating to that group, regardless of whether or not there is merit to such an outlook. The problem is that I am an individual facing down a group. I am vulnerable to the whims of the crowd. The problem is that even though I can drink out of a nicer water faucet, in my direct relations with your store where you give me a hard time cause I'm a cracker, I am the weaker of the situation.

Because the idea of there being racism and reverse racism has a small implication to it, one that is subtle. Because, you see, the power of racism is divide and conquer. I have no power. I lost my god damn house, and being white didn't do shit, did it? Yeah, I'm white, I get two cookies a day, while you N words and c words or whatever only get one cookie. Well the god damn baron of sweets is the one with the key to the god damn cookie vault. But he's just one dude, you understand?

He gives me that cookie to turn us against each other. That's all racism is, that's what it was meant to do and what it gets done. I fight you to keep getting that extra cookie, and you fight with me because I get that extra cookie. Racism and reverse racism are the same thing. Two fools beating each other up because some third dude will only give one of us the golden ticket and invite one of us into the chocolate factory to marvel at his slave laborers who don't even have the time to worry about sweets because they're struggling to survive.

Feminism shares the same fallacy. Racism justifies the white man keeping the black man down, and in turn, both the white man and black man were kept down by the people with land and money. It is the same, regardless of who belongs to what group. Feminism is the same thing. Man fighting woman while a bisexual hermaphrodite is sucking off a million horses.

What got me thinking like this? A simple thing. Reading about the holocaust, I read a sentence about how someone threw a few coins of gold into a crowd, and they tore upon each other to grab them to buy some extra bread. Literally fighting over pennies, over crumbs, over retarded perks we don't need, brother and brother, husband and wife, neighbor and neighbor, countryman and countryman, all attacking each other for a short term gain, thinking it is a long term gain. You are pulling up the plant without attacking it's roots. It is within the very foundations of our society. I hate every single feminist because THEY AREN'T GETTING SHIT DONE. Once we can no longer be divided by terms of sexism, we'll just attack something else, you fucking retards. It does not matter if you are not the one being whipped as long as you let him keep the whip in his hands, as it will merely lash against someone else.

This is why I have such disagreeable views on racism and sexism and all that crap. This is why you are to blame for the war in Iraq by just sitting around saying how you were always against it. You weren't, you were scared that your house was gonna get bombed and you listened to what you thought were facts as in iraq people really were getting bombed. Those people don't give a fuck that you realized George Bush was an idiot because they're buildings are destroyed, a young boy's baby sister died in his arms as the rubble caved in her skull, and to him, blowing himself up is okay, hurting you when you "didn't do anything" is okay, because YOU LET HER DIE.

Feminists are trash. Equality or bust. Stop saying you're a feminist, or pro feminist.
Say you oppose all forms of discrimination, and when someone looks at you strange, spend as much time possible opening their god damn eyes so that there is one less plebian toiling for a corrupt system.
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Re: Feminism, sexism, iraq, and your mom's fat.

Postby Kovvy » Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:37 am

1) I didn't know you were white.
2) Quit your yipping and your yapping and make me a sandwich.
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Re: Feminism, sexism, iraq, and your mom's fat.

Postby smiley_cow » Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:42 pm

OK, I debated for like twenty minutes on whether I should respond to this. Here I go against my better judgment.

1.
AHMETxRock wrote:I hate every single feminist because THEY AREN'T GETTING SHIT DONE.


Not getting things done, and you not being aware of what is being done are two completely different things.


2. The argument that sexism is wrong because it focuses on a specific kind of discrimination makes as much sense as saying members of the civil rights community were in the wrong for focusing purely on racsim.


3.
AHMETxRock wrote:It is as foolish to say that feminists advocate equality as it is to state that all Muslims are terrorists


Merriam-Webster Dictionary wrote:Feminism: the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes.


Why are the people who claim to be feminists and not understanding what it really is considered to be automatically right?

Just because some Muslims are terrorists doesn't mean they all are. Just because some women (and not nearly as many as the media makes it out to be) who call themselves feminists hate men doesn't mean they all do.


4.Feminism is just as much against sexism towards men as it against sexism towards women. If the focus usually seems to be on sexism against women though it's probably because A. Female feminists vastly outnumber male feminists and B. There's a lot more sexism against women than against men. If you want I can link you to feminist speaking out about sexism against men.


5. Say the words I'll link you to actualfeminist literature and blogs instead of the pop culture feminism you seem to only be able to find.


6.Seriously, haven't we beat this dead horse enough yet?
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Re: Feminism, sexism, iraq, and your mom's fat.

Postby Amerika » Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:06 pm

I think we need to settle this at the park!


at the skate park

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Re: Feminism, sexism, iraq, and your mom's fat.

Postby Kovvy » Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:06 pm

sk8 parkzz.

Smiley, you are braver than I.
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Re: Feminism, sexism, iraq, and your mom's fat.

Postby AHMETxRock » Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:07 pm

I am sorry, but saying "haha no you're wrong the definition of the word feminism has the word equality in it" doesn't actually mean shit.

By the way, "there is more sexism against women than men" is the equivalent of the distinction between racism and reverse racism arguement that I gave. That is wrong. That was a stupid thing to say. The idea that women need to stay at home is sexist, right? Well the other side of the coin is that men are expected to do the work, which is equally as sexist. The distribution of power is heavily in man's favor, I admit, but this does not mean that there is more sexism against women.

So what you said was just sexist. Because like I said blacks and whites are thrown against each other, men and woman are as well. For example, parents make a big deal about the guy a woman dates, right? Very protective of her, but doesn't do anything near as much as with when their son dates someone. Yeah it sucks for the girl that the parents are acting like that, but you have to understand that the son is also being unfairly treated, by the parents of the girl he is trying to date. Girls want sex just as much as men do, and yet it's always the boy who's seen as the one who needs to be cautious of. (edit, sounded like the opposite of my point). There is no way that one group is discriminated against more than another. Yes, one group has less power as a whole. As I've mentioned with the race arguement, this is to keep the majority of people infighting while those with the actual power are safe.

I think you didn't get the point of what I was trying to say at all cow. I will listen to your rebuttal on this point, if any, before I proceed to respond to your other listed points. Otherwise we can just ignore this part and pretend I'm wrong. I will respond to the other parts, but let's do this organized, instead of angrily.
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Re: Feminism, sexism, iraq, and your mom's fat.

Postby smiley_cow » Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:36 pm

AHMETxRock wrote:I will respond to the other parts, but let's do this organized, instead of angrily.


Wait, how am I angry? You're the one denouncing arguments as stupid and swearing.

Anyways, stating fact is not sexist. No one is saying men don't suffer from sexism. They do every day, and it can be quite bad. But to say it's equal is both ignorant and makes you sound incredibly privileged.

The fact of the matter is that by being the privileged group you suffer less. I'm not sure how this concept doesn't make sense to you. Yes it's sexist that men are expected to go out and work while women aren't. But to say that that's as bad as it for women, who in some places aren't allowed to work or only allowed to work certain jobs, who get discriminated against constantly when they try and enter a field that is very male dominated, who can very rarely rise to a place where they have any power is equal to being expected to go out and get a job is really quite a statement.

I am sorry, but saying "haha no you're wrong the definition of the word feminism has the word equality in it" doesn't actually mean shit.


And neither does you just coming on and saying 'Feminism is devil!' without any sources to back you. At least I'm backing myself up with something.
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Lets talk about pretzels instead

Postby Kimra » Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:27 pm

smiley_cow wrote:And neither does you just coming on and saying 'Feminism is devil!' without any sources to back you. At least I'm backing myself up with something.


Intelligence. You are a shining beacon in this world Smiley.
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Re: Feminism, sexism, iraq, and your mom's fat.

Postby AHMETxRock » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:12 pm

I was just saying let's be cool about it with the angry part, but on MSN you already mentioned yourself you don't want to get all hot and bothered about it either.

As for a reply:
No, men have negatives in society. You come across as ignorant for seeing one facet of life's discrimination as more important than another's. However, ignorance is not a crime, otherwise, all infants would be slaughtered for it. What right do you, or anyone, have to judge one side's discrimination as worse than anothers?

Or did the concept of it all being relative completely fly over your head? That was a pretty important statement. I'd like you to address this. Is it NOT relative, so that you actually can make the statement that one side DOES have it objectively worse?

My statements are not without base. There was a very long explaination about racism typed up. I feel it was the same logic, which is why I did not repeat. I can gladly delete phrases alluding to the concept of racism and replace it with phrases alluding to the concept of sexism, of course.

Perhaps you see the issues as different? That one form of discrimination is different than another? Actually, that's exactly what you seem to be implying, stating that the discrimination against women is worse against men. Do you see the struggles of racism different from the struggles of sexism? I am of the opinion that all forms of discrimination have the same roots in our collective psycology as a species that is being exploited.


What purpose does sexism serve? As someone who owns a company, why would I pick a male employee over a potentially better female employee? There is no good reason. It is counter productive, and self destructive behavior. We discriminate for the same reasons, not the same justifications. Racism, sexism, agism, classism, empirialism, patriotism. Dispite the fact that Barack Obama is a much better president than George W. Bush by leaps and people dislike him solely for the fact he is Half Black/African American whatever I'm meant to call him. I still have doubts he's a citizen however, you know how good Jews are at forging documents.

And do not talk down to me either. The side that is wrong rarely ever concedes as such, but the fact that people can act so hypocritical in the face of how wrong they were pisses me off. I am not a racist or a sexist and I honestly hate anyone will is thinking of me as such. I am here willing to engage in dialogue. When fire ants are tearing away at your body, you must not worry about individuals.

Or perhaps a more true to life example would be better than making up some sort of half assed witticism? A few holloween's ago, a former friend of mine, having just got her licence, picked us up to go drive down to a wealthier town to do our trick-or-treating. When the car in front of her stopped short, rather than press the breaks she jumped out of fear and hit the gas. It means that unless you know what you are doing, you can hardly be expected to react correctly.
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Re: Feminism, sexism, iraq, and your mom's fat.

Postby Olax » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:37 pm

I really don't want to get involved in this discussion, but fuck it. I'm just gonna state my opinion, without actually responding to anything either of you said.

First of all: I am a feminist. Actually, pretty much all the people I know (on a personal level) are feminists, except perhaps the spare few who call themselves feminist activist. Like any extremist they are fundamentally wrong. Being a feminist is having the opinion that it is wrong to oppress women because they are women. I strongly support this. (If you have another definition, I might not be a feminist in your humble* opinion.)

I do want people of any of a variety of sexes to have the same opportunities, and the same rights. Equality is an illusion, created by the kind of people who think women deserve as much as men an sich**. This is, of course, bullshit. Men and women aren't equal. If a man can do a job which requires him being muscular faster, better, or more accurately than a woman, he should be paid more. Exactly the same thing would happen if this man could do this job better than another man. Men and women aren't equal, just because people aren't equal.

Equal treatment is, if possible, an even larger pile of bullshit. If a Trans-MF would want to be treated equally as a woman, shkle wouldn't be able to pay for his sex change, because regular women don't want sex changes***. Transcribing this to racism: If a black guy**** would want to be treated equally as a whitey, well... it would be another world. All I can thing of is very generalizing generalizations. Religion, then. If a Muslim would want to be treated equally as an Agnost, he wouldn't be able to ask people to leave their shoes at the door when entering his church.
In short: if people would be treated equally, than all those beautiful differences that gives them something to call their own (or belonging to their group) would dissapear. We wouldn't have pizza, for fuck's sake. Only the American kind, which is gross, and not American at all. It would be called International Pizza, and I would dislike it, but you would call me a racist if I didn't eat it. I am so getting nowhere with this.

So, straight to my point. The only form of equality I really believe in, is equal chances/opportunities. An Marrocan, atheist, female furry living in the same city as I, should be able to get the same amount of money if she'd be able to puppeteer at an equal level as I did. She should pay exactly the same prize as I for bus fare, she should pay a relatively equal amount of taxes (of course, I'm a better puppeteer, not because she's a woman, but because I'm really good).
If we would both start working at McDonald's when we both quit our puppeteering jobs in January, we should both not get hired because we both really don't plan on shaving our moustaches.

I had a point with this, but I'm tired, and I should be writing in Dutch, and I'm just avoiding creating the actually meaningful book I'd like to write. Whatever. The only equality is not shaving your moustache. Besides that, everybody is equally awful. Amen.

*I'd wish
**You can say 'an sich' in English, right?
***Because they already have vaginas!
****Americans really have a taboo on the word 'nіgger', why is that?
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Re: Feminism, sexism, iraq, and your mom's fat.

Postby Amerika » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:49 pm

Olax, you need to start a thread about puppeteering. Because you have an interesting job.
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Re: Feminism, sexism, iraq, and your mom's fat.

Postby Olax » Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:06 am

I am willing to tell about it in every single thread I post in, if you really want me to, but starting a thread about it sounds like a lot of work.
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Re: Feminism, sexism, iraq, and your mom's fat.

Postby Amerika » Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:23 am

I'll start the thread, you can reply in it.
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Re: Feminism, sexism, iraq, and your mom's fat.

Postby Lethal Interjection » Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:41 am

Why is racism against whites, or sexism against men "ignored"?

Ummmm... because the white man and men are the oppressors. Are there black racists and female sexists? Hell yeah. Do they have nearly the effect on society that white racists and male sexists do? Not even close.
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Re: Feminism, sexism, iraq, and your mom's fat.

Postby Kimra » Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:57 am

And they aren't ignored, they just aren't given as much prominence because they are such an overwhelming issue.
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