[2012-Feb-19] We're sorry for taking this awesome land

[Kaharz]

Here is a much more detailed and less asinine article from the Washington Post. http://tinyurl.com/7tn2za9

It is three pages. The basic summary is this:
In 1970 a trawler dredged up a mammoth tusk and a stone blade that matches blades similar to ones made in Spain 20k years ago. Since then a few other stone tools in the same styles as those found in western Europe have been found at several mid-Atlantic sites in the US. The tools were dated by the soil layers they were found in. The stone tools themselves have not been directly dated. That is about the extent of the evidence thus far. There are a few more details in the article about how the people that may have emigrated from Europe may have been a sea-faring society.

The arguments against it are that no one has ever found any real evidence of boats of the supposedly sea-faring people and no other evidence has been found of them in North America other than some stone tools with similar styles to those found in Europe. There is also no cultural, linguistic or genetic link between north American cultures pre-dating the 1500s and those in Europe. Additionally, the evidence in favor of a continuous ice shelf across the north Atlantic are in dispute.

Not that it actually matters to the original debate.

[Crunchy Pete]

That was a great summary, thanks Kaharz. I'm going to read the article itself, but before doing that, it's really good to know that there's some more enlightened viewpoints than the ones presented in the other source.

Not that it actually matters to the original debate.

It's quite a pervasive idea, though, isn't it? That if only the Europeans had got to the Americas first, that suddenly that's nigh justification for the decades of exploitation to follow. White guilt needn't apply! What a relief.

I think it's an incredibly bull-headed simplification, and it saddens me that there are so many ready to jump at the opportunity to gloss over things that really need to be challenged if humanity and society are ever going to progress.

on that note, heres a pic of a kitten in a tunnel

[GUTCHUCKER]

Is it just me, or does that kitten have a remarkably profound expression on its face?

[Crunchy Pete]

well, yeah, that's the crux of my argument

[TestingAnonymity]

Sort of sorry about the borderline thread necromancy here, but, it's worth noting that the exploitation and abusive of the indigenous people of north america is hardly over.

http://blackmesais.org/ - Black Mesa, an area where a bunch of white folks exploited loopholes in tribal councils to legally justify selling off tons of land that these tribes have been living on for *generations* - for coal mining.

Try to think about that for a moment - the tribe is inseperable from the land. "My great, great grandparents - my ANCESORS - lived here. Their footprints are in the soil."

[Crunchy Pete]

Sort of sorry

Crunchy Pete feels he can only sort of forgive you

[Dane Raider]

That link breaks my browser.

[Sprinkles]

then use your spirit browser.

[Oldrac the Chitinous]

Sort of sorry about the borderline thread necromancy here, but, it's worth noting that the exploitation and abusive of the indigenous people of north america is hardly over.

http://blackmesais.org/ - Black Mesa, an area where a bunch of white folks exploited loopholes in tribal councils to legally justify selling off tons of land that these tribes have been living on for *generations* - for coal mining.

And that's not the end of it, 'cause back in 1995, the Combine showed up with their Vortigaunt slaves and their bombs full of headcrabs and exterminated or lobotomized all the all the natives that were left!

That link breaks my browser.

You and me both, brother.

[Kimra]

And that's not the end of it, 'cause back in 1995, the Combine showed up with their Vortigaunt slaves and their bombs full of headcrabs and exterminated or lobotomized all the all the natives that were left!

Hmm that's what I know them for too.

[GUTCHUCKER]

I will jump on that half life 2 train

[TestingAnonymity]

Unfortunately, it does seem like the blackmesais.org site is having some issues- it usually works after a reload or two, for me.

Here are some additional resources:

• http://www.taalahooghan.org/2012/02/sto ... in-elders/
• http://anti-politics.net/distro/ - Some stuff on this halfway down.

It's a lot easier to make Half Life jokes than to actually consider this stuff - and yes, the first time I heard of Black Mesa - the real place - the first thing I thought of was Gordon Freeman - a fictional videogame character.

Funny - faced with the knowledge of the willfull eradication of an entire lifestyle and people, and my pop media is what I think of first.

Remember - if you're doing nothing in a situation of injustive, it's functionally quite similar to taking the side of the oppressor.

Or - "Inaction is complicity"

[Oldrac the Chitinous]

Yeah, all right, I'll get right on it once I've dealt with Joseph Kony.