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[2011-Jul-26] Wildly Naive

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:44 am
by ghoest
http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2318

Is he saying in the votey that socialism and anarchy are individually wildly naive or that conflating the two indicates a wildly naive worldview?

Re: July 26: Wildly Naive

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:57 pm
by Edminster
No. The "wildly naive" descriptor is applied to the boy, not the politics.

Re: July 26: Wildly Naive

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:46 pm
by unapologetic anarchist
Actually, the descriptor applies to the boy's "political views". Those views, as indicated by his shirt, are an opposition to GMOs, a fondness for socialism and a fondness for anarchism.

I agree that it is naive to be opposed to GMOs based on some 'natural is good and GMOs aren't natural' fallacy, but there are real reasons to oppose GMOs as they lead to a vast reduction in genetic diversity among food crops, among other issues. http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/07/food-ark/food-variety-graphic

I don't see it as naive to be in favour of both socialism and anarchism. As an anarchist, I see both anarchism and socialism as likely to produce better outcomes than the current capitalist system. Depending on who you ask, anarchism may actually be described as a sub-species of socialism, especially 'social anarchism' or 'anarcho-communism' (check wikipedia for more info).

And the reference to naiveté immediately reminds me of a great comic by Matt Bors: http://www.mattbors.com/archives/781.html
Who is really the naive one, Zach?

I don't want to get into a big debate about political theory, but I would just ask those who instinctively call radicals, revolutionaries, anarchists and socialists "naive" to actually read some well-regarded political theorists who hold those ideologies rather than basing their views on things that their Che t-shirt wearing nephew spouted off about during the last Thanksgiving dinner.

Re: July 26: Wildly Naive

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:54 pm
by csmk
This comic is old-school. Just like the early ones. I love it!

Re: July 26: Wildly Naive

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:57 pm
by matrixbandit
How long do you suppose until they start selling the t-shirt from the votey in the SMBC store? Anyone want to take bets? :D

Re: July 26: Wildly Naive

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:27 pm
by Edminster
unapologetic anarchist wrote:Actually, the descriptor applies to the boy's "political views".

wrong. if i hold an apple and believe that apple is the saviour of mankind, it is not the apple that is naive.

ideas cannot be naive, they simply point out naivete.

Re: July 26: Wildly Naive

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:51 pm
by Gangler
csmk wrote:This comic is old-school. Just like the early ones. I love it!

Edminster wrote:
unapologetic anarchist wrote:Actually, the descriptor applies to the boy's "political views".

wrong. if i hold an apple and believe that apple is the saviour of mankind, it is not the apple that is naive.

ideas cannot be naive, they simply point out naivete.

These two things.

I'd also point out that feeling the need to wear that shirt when meeting your girlfriend's parents is an indicator of naivete on a level entirely separate from any of his political ideals. He surely must have had a shirt better suited for that occasion in his possession somewhere.

Re: July 26: Wildly Naive

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:19 pm
by Lethal Interjection
Precisely.
The anarchy and socialism don't have to be naive, but the kid's perspective on them might be.

Re: July 26: Wildly Naive

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:36 pm
by Where's the beef?
Edminster wrote:
unapologetic anarchist wrote:Actually, the descriptor applies to the boy's "political views".

wrong. if i hold an apple and believe that apple is the saviour of mankind, it is not the apple that is naive.

ideas cannot be naive, they simply point out naivete.


If you really think that apple is the saviour of mankind then you are certainly naive.

Re: July 26: Wildly Naive

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:41 pm
by Edminster
Where's the beef? wrote:
Edminster wrote:
unapologetic anarchist wrote:Actually, the descriptor applies to the boy's "political views".

wrong. if i hold an apple and believe that apple is the saviour of mankind, it is not the apple that is naive.

ideas cannot be naive, they simply point out naivete.


If you really think that apple is the saviour of mankind then you are certainly naive.

Exactly!

Re: July 26: Wildly Naive

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:43 pm
by NR22
Believing Socialism doesn't make you naive.
Not questioning your government does.

Re: July 26: Wildly Naive

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:45 pm
by Lethal Interjection
NR22 wrote:Believing Socialism doesn't make you naive.
Not questioning your government does.


Wrong.
It could just mean you are apathetic.

Re: July 26: Wildly Naive

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:28 pm
by DonRetrasado
I would've thought that socialism and anarchism are quite mutually exclusive, but apparently they're not*.

Anyway the joke is definitely about people who blindly embrace counter-culture movements and expose their own ignorance. Like wearing a Che Guevara T-Shirt without the least familiarity with the Cuban Revolution.

*I, of course, did not actually read the article.

EDIT: Come to think of it, the Livestrong wristband phenomenon pretty adequately mirrors Che Guevara's popularity in terms of "fashion articles that people do not understand the significance of". Although Livestrong supports a charity instead of a violent radical, so that's a plus.

Re: July 26: Wildly Naive

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:19 am
by GUTCHUCKER
they lead to a vast reduction in genetic diversity among food crops, among other issues

Umm, that's a good thing. We want them as is.
...Also, HOW? Which food crops? What other issues?
I am irritated.

Re: July 26: Wildly Naive

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:36 am
by Quintushalls
As a male, if I tried threatening to do this, I would never get that video game.