[2013-oct-20] This comic is distracting from this comic

Blame Quintushalls for this.

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Re: [2013-oct-20] This comic is distracting from this comic

Postby Alsier » Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:38 am

I didn't even notice that there were gay couples in this comic.

I think your suspension of disbelief isn't strong enough, OP. If you can't give an author the benefit of the doubt, maybe you're projecting your own insecurities with regards to how you feel about gay people?
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Re: [2013-oct-20] This comic is distracting from this comic

Postby Salty » Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:29 am

Alsier wrote:maybe you're projecting your own insecurities with regards to how you feel about gay people?


That is misconstruing my critique to fit your preconceived notions. Similarly, when you critique someone's religion, they say "you just hate god," avoiding your actual critique.

My critique is this:

1) Zach has not made a funny or thought provoking comic in a while.
2) In order to compensate, he "slips in" these characters to raise the status of his comics.
3) An audience of self-proclaimed liberals, subconsciously, enjoy "not even noticing."

This is an ego trip.

Also, if you need to draw comics with an unnaturally high amount of gay couples in order to say you're not homophobic, maybe you're insecure about how you feel towards gay people.
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Re: [2013-oct-20] This comic is distracting from this comic

Postby Carcinogeneticist » Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:41 am

Just for fun, I went through every comic from the last 4 months and tallied up every depiction/reference to a romantic/sexual partner:

Hetero: 35
Homo: 6
Zombie: 2
Robot: 1
Dinosaur: 1
TOTAL: 45

There were also a handful of relationships left too ambivalent to tally, but as you can see the representation of homosexual couples in SMBC is actually far closer to reality than you claim.
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Re: [2013-oct-20] This comic is distracting from this comic

Postby Carcinogeneticist » Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:42 am

Also, I completely disagree that the comics aren't funny. They're as funny as they've ever been.
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Re: [2013-oct-20] This comic is distracting from this comic

Postby DonRetrasado » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:00 am

Zach did once make a big song and dance on Reddit/facebook about including a gay couple for no comic-relevant reason, which seemed tasteless to me, but he apologized for it when people called him out on drawing attention to himself. Since then, he's included gay characters regularly without drawing attention to it, which makes a lot of sense to me. Think about it; if someone is straight, do they feel the need to make a special note of it? There's nothing really that objectionable to me about gay people or their supposed overrepresentation; they just "are" (just like straight people just "are"). Just because something isn't about gay people doesn't mean it can't include them. This matches up with reality too: for instance, my university department is hugely gay even though it's linguistics, but again, there's nothing outwardly different than if it were mostly straight people, except that most of the women have the same buzzcut as me.

Salty wrote:I might not have made myself clear. There is no "specific area designed to challenge them." However, we must be true to our society's condition. By wearing a dress, whether he intended to or not, people will notice that and the situation will become about that. To summarize, Zach making comics, "slipping in" gay/transgender couples more frequently than we see almost anywhere else, is making his comics about that topic. So there is nothing "wrong" about wearing a dress, but if the professor honestly does not want his lessons to be about that, he shouldn't wear it. If he does want to wear it, by all means he should, but he shouldn't pretend he is not making a deliberate point by doing so.

Of course, there are people who are too morally perfect to notice this. (I am being partially satirical, but partially not). I believe many of you do not notice this anymore, and it's even possible some people didn't notice the tribesmen's race. But the majority of casual readers (including those who are not homophobic/racist) will notice this.

I think you're saying way more about your own prejudices than whatever you think you're saying. Remember: a professor who wakes up and decides to wear a dress that day doesn't see anything strange about that situation, man or woman.

There was a time when people would've frowned at a professor being black, or seeing an interracial couple on the street (actually, this still happens a lot). And today you'd be judged severely for expressing a thought like that (though people can still have these thoughts privately). So it'd serve you better to be aware of your own prejudices, and ask yourself why it is that it bothers you to see a gay couple.
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Re: [2013-oct-20] This comic is distracting from this comic

Postby zarquon » Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:42 am

Salty wrote:Think of it this way. Imagine a male professor walks into class every day wearing a pink dress. Is their anything wrong or immoral with that? We all agree, no. But if the class is about urban planning and not gender studies - (and Zach's comics are about fill in and not just making a social point - then the professor and Zach are being presumptuous about what is necessary and even okay. Is it a valid point to discuss how our society designs genders? Yes. Does it need to be made every single class while the proffesor is discussing something entirely unrelated? No


If my female maths prof showed up in the lecture hall wearing a pink dress, I would expect her to have a good reason/ excuse. I don't think it should be acceptable to wear whatever in a professional setting, regardless of gender roles and so on. If I should run into a male professor in a pink dress outside of the university, I would of course be fine with that.
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Re: [2013-oct-20] This comic is distracting from this comic

Postby Salty » Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:43 pm

Carcinogeneticist wrote:Just for fun, I went through every comic from the last 4 months and tallied up every depiction/reference to a romantic/sexual partner:

Hetero: 35
Homo: 6
Zombie: 2
Robot: 1
Dinosaur: 1
TOTAL: 45

There were also a handful of relationships left too ambivalent to tally, but as you can see the representation of homosexual couples in SMBC is actually far closer to reality than you claim.


Tally the amount of couples who are not homosexual/biracial. Anything that draws attention is what I'm referring to. The amount of straight, same race couples is much rarer.
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Re: [2013-oct-20] This comic is distracting from this comic

Postby Salty » Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:48 pm

DonRetrasado wrote:... and ask yourself why it is that it bothers you to see a gay couple.


If you refuse to respond to my critique and rather just place a character judgement on me for making it, then there is nothing left to discuss.

What bothers me is the inherent hypocrisy regarding the reasons Zach has these characters. If he did not have these characters, we would see through the supposed "intellectual superiority" of his comics. It is pandering to a niche audience who craves to feel superior.
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Re: [2013-oct-20] This comic is distracting from this comic

Postby Salty » Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:55 pm

DonRetrasado wrote:Remember: a professor who wakes up and decides to wear a dress that day doesn't see anything strange about that situation, man or woman.

There was a time when people would've frowned at a professor being black, or seeing an interracial couple on the street (actually, this still happens a lot). And today you'd be judged severely for expressing a thought like that (though people can still have these thoughts privately). So it'd serve you better to be aware of your own prejudices, and ask yourself why it is that it bothers you to see a gay couple.



That is a very slipper slope. Zach doesn't talk about a lot of groups. I think he left out little people in his past many comics. Is he part of the problem of hatred towards little people?
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Re: [2013-oct-20] This comic is distracting from this comic

Postby Lanina » Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:55 pm

There are interracial couples and same-sexed couples in real life too, is that distracting you from enjoying your everyday life?

The only reason why you think there are sooo many gay couples is because you focus on them. As people earlier in the thread have counted, there is still a large majority of hetero couples. I am actually glad to see a comic that tries to have some diversity when it comes to characters, without making it into a big deal. I think the comics actually describe reality better than, for example, Peanuts. The world is not made up of only white heterosexual Americans, you know. Why would then a comic only consist of such characters?
It doesn't even have a set time or place, and if you live in a conservative area and therefore never see homosexual or interracial couples IRL, try picturing these comics as if they were set in the near future when homophobia and racism doesn't exist any more. :)

Also, I still find most of the comics entertaining. If you think the comics are boring and are distracted by the choice of characters, then perhaps you can read another comic.
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Re: [2013-oct-20] This comic is distracting from this comic

Postby Edminster » Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:28 pm

Salty wrote:Tally the amount of couples who are not homosexual/biracial. Anything that draws attention is what I'm referring to. The amount of straight, same race couples is much rarer.

Are biracial couples really that rare? The more you post the more you just sound bigoted or otherwise extremely sheltered.

I mean maybe I'm the one with the weird experience, but pretty much everyone in my family is in a biracial relationship and it doesn't seem weird in the slightest.
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Re: [2013-oct-20] This comic is distracting from this comic

Postby Salty » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:20 pm

Edminster wrote:
Salty wrote:Tally the amount of couples who are not homosexual/biracial. Anything that draws attention is what I'm referring to. The amount of straight, same race couples is much rarer.

Are biracial couples really that rare? The more you post the more you just sound bigoted or otherwise extremely sheltered.

I mean maybe I'm the one with the weird experience, but pretty much everyone in my family is in a biracial relationship and it doesn't seem weird in the slightest.


I am sheltered? That is absurd. Are you aware that only 8% of marriages are interracial in America? You are clearly the one living in a bubble. You are sheltered from the reality of our time, and choose to pretend it isn't there (sustaining your shelter) with this media/
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Re: [2013-oct-20] This comic is distracting from this comic

Postby GUTCHUCKER » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:37 pm

America is full of stupid backwards people and legislation. Your statistics are as invalid as your assumption that they imply we live in a bubble. You clearly have no idea at all.
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Re: [2013-oct-20] This comic is distracting from this comic

Postby Edminster » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:59 pm

Salty wrote:
Edminster wrote:
Salty wrote:Tally the amount of couples who are not homosexual/biracial. Anything that draws attention is what I'm referring to. The amount of straight, same race couples is much rarer.

Are biracial couples really that rare? The more you post the more you just sound bigoted or otherwise extremely sheltered.

I mean maybe I'm the one with the weird experience, but pretty much everyone in my family is in a biracial relationship and it doesn't seem weird in the slightest.


I am sheltered? That is absurd. Are you aware that only 8% of marriages are interracial in America? You are clearly the one living in a bubble. You are sheltered from the reality of our time, and choose to pretend it isn't there (sustaining your shelter) with this media/

Thanks for making me look at the statistics! For the area I live in, one in five marriages are interracial and the next state over is one in six. Plus, my ethnic group tends to 'marry out' a quarter of the time. So I guess my experience is not weird at all!

Also for 2010 the number of new interracial marriages was 15% and part of a long trend upwards, so your 8% number is slightly disingenuous and perhaps it is you who is choosing to pretend the reality of our times isn't there.

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Re: [2013-oct-20] This comic is distracting from this comic

Postby Liriodendron_fagotti » Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:08 pm

You got Ed to show how adorable he and his family are, so there's that going for you.

One of the guys I live with is half white American from his mom, half Chinese from his dad. His dad and each of his dad's three siblings all married outside their ethnic group.

Even if Zach was over-representing certain groups (which it looks like he isn't), I don't see any reason to take issue with it.
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