[2017-12-08] Healthcare

Blame Quintushalls for this.

Moderator: Kimra

Re: [2017-12-08] Healthcare

Postby NeatNit » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:44 pm

Ugh, this thread. None of you seems interested to listen to the other side's arguments. Not to mention - well, to mention I guess - the flame war (small, but it was there) in the last page.

Can any of you say you've learned something from having this discussion? Had some sort of change on your opinion based on presented facts? Because reading this, it just looks like you're arguing with yourselves.

Sincerely,
Me, as I am going to sleep, being massively more of an asshole than I usually am.
NeatNit
 
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Re: [2017-12-08] Healthcare

Postby Kit. » Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:12 pm

Snodgrass wrote:You buy seeds and plant them. You water them, you weed the plant, you protect it from insects. Your money and time and effort has grown you 10 tomatoes.

The state comes and takes your tomatoes, distributes them to your neighbors, and gives you two back. You are expected to be grateful that they have given you something that belonged to you in the first place.

It doesn't matter whether or not communism "works". It's irrelevant whether or not you can survive, or even thrive, on those two tomatoes. Your labor has just been stolen and given away without your consent. That is slavery.

Slavery is evil, communism is slavery. Communism is evil. This is irrefutable, logical fact.

Is it the first time when you learned that life is generally unfair?
Kit.
 
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Re: [2017-12-08] Healthcare

Postby Snodgrass » Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:01 pm

Kit. wrote:
Snodgrass wrote:You buy seeds and plant them. You water them, you weed the plant, you protect it from insects. Your money and time and effort has grown you 10 tomatoes.

The state comes and takes your tomatoes, distributes them to your neighbors, and gives you two back. You are expected to be grateful that they have given you something that belonged to you in the first place.

It doesn't matter whether or not communism "works". It's irrelevant whether or not you can survive, or even thrive, on those two tomatoes. Your labor has just been stolen and given away without your consent. That is slavery.

Slavery is evil, communism is slavery. Communism is evil. This is irrefutable, logical fact.

Is it the first time when you learned that life is generally unfair?


So your argument is, because life is unfair, embrace the unfairness and champion it as goodness?
Snodgrass
 

Re: [2017-12-08] Healthcare

Postby JosieQ. » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:29 am

I think his argument is, "I'm snarky, aggressive without cause, and jaded, but I still like to claim the moral high-ground because I'm also a hypocrite."
JosieQ.
 

Re: [2017-12-08] Healthcare

Postby Kit. » Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:53 am

Snodgrass wrote:
Kit. wrote:
Snodgrass wrote:You buy seeds and plant them. You water them, you weed the plant, you protect it from insects. Your money and time and effort has grown you 10 tomatoes.

The state comes and takes your tomatoes, distributes them to your neighbors, and gives you two back. You are expected to be grateful that they have given you something that belonged to you in the first place.

It doesn't matter whether or not communism "works". It's irrelevant whether or not you can survive, or even thrive, on those two tomatoes. Your labor has just been stolen and given away without your consent. That is slavery.

Slavery is evil, communism is slavery. Communism is evil. This is irrefutable, logical fact.

Is it the first time when you learned that life is generally unfair?


So your argument is, because life is unfair, embrace the unfairness and champion it as goodness?

My argument is, if you want to fix something, start with learning how it actually works.

Otherwise you are not in a better position than commies. In fact, you are in a worse position, because when commies started, it wasn't yet known that communism doesn't work.
Kit.
 
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Re: [2017-12-08] Healthcare

Postby Snodgrass » Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:04 am

Kit. wrote:My argument is, if you want to fix something, start with learning how it actually works.


??

Learn how what works?
Snodgrass
 

Re: [2017-12-08] Healthcare

Postby Kit. » Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:29 am

Snodgrass wrote:
Kit. wrote:My argument is, if you want to fix something, start with learning how it actually works.


??

Learn how what works?

What you are trying to fix.

For example, in your rant you seem to assume that your ability to use resources exclusively (uncontested) shall be given to you by the society for free, no matter how much this ability costs for the society to maintain. You may think that it's "good" when others pay for your privilege with the loss of their own opportunities, but it's unsustainable and won't last.
Kit.
 
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Re: [2017-12-08] Healthcare

Postby Snodgrass » Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:03 pm

Kit. wrote:
Snodgrass wrote:
Kit. wrote:My argument is, if you want to fix something, start with learning how it actually works.


??

Learn how what works?

What you are trying to fix.

For example, in your rant you seem to assume that your ability to use resources exclusively (uncontested) shall be given to you by the society for free, no matter how much this ability costs for the society to maintain. You may think that it's "good" when others pay for your privilege with the loss of their own opportunities, but it's unsustainable and won't last.


I am not trying to "fix" anything. Certainly not communism. So again I don't understand what you're saying there.

Society is giving me no resources, because rain - is that what you're talking about, rain? - comes from the sky, not society. If your starting point is that everything belongs to everyone, rain earth seeds, and no one can own anything without the permission of everyone else, then you are already too far into madness to see reason.

Regardless, your categorizing my civil and rational post as a "rant" is childish and insulting. I don't appreciate the way you pop in, make smug remarks to people without having the courage to state your own opinion other than mocking theirs, and then have to be forced to actually explain what that opinion is so that you have an excuse to make further uncalled for insults. You seem to think that you're showing off your astounding mind and reason, but your posts are always poorly-stated and confusing anyway.

I will not engage in mean-spiritedness for its own sake, especially not from someone wearing the guise of being and knowing better than me and everyone else. Please don't quote me again, at least not before performing a dramatic and sincere reversal of attitude.
Snodgrass
 

Re: [2017-12-08] Healthcare

Postby Kit. » Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:41 pm

Snodgrass wrote:I am not trying to "fix" anything.

Then what exactly did you try to achieve with your first post?

Snodgrass wrote:Society is giving me no resources, because rain - is that what you're talking about, rain?

See? You are already missing a lot.

Let's start from the very two first words of your post: "You buy...". They mean that someone called "you" exchanges a privilege of exclusive access to something that is called "money" for a privilege of exclusive access to something that is called "goods". Not everyone recognizes this privilege (in particular, but not limited to, not everyone thinks that it is "fair" that this privilege is given to "you"), so it is enforced by society (with violence, if needed). That enforcement requires spending resources.

If you think that the rest of your post is any better, think again.

Snodgrass wrote:Regardless, your categorizing my civil and rational post as a "rant" is childish and insulting.

Unfortunately, your post was neither civil nor rational. If you want to describe how you post looked like, yes, "childish" is a right word. "Insulting"? That means effect. So far, your posts haven't managed to achieve that effect, but maybe later, with someone else.

Snodgrass wrote:I don't appreciate the way you pop in, make smug remarks to people without having the courage to state your own opinion other than mocking theirs, and then have to be forced to actually explain what that opinion is so that you have an excuse to make further uncalled for insults. You seem to think that you're showing off your astounding mind and reason, but your posts are always poorly-stated and confusing anyway.

I will not engage in mean-spiritedness for its own sake, especially not from someone wearing the guise of being and knowing better than me and everyone else.

So, your rant continues in this post.

If you want to hear my opinion, change your attitude and ask for my opinion. But don't forget to specify the topic.

Snodgrass wrote:Please don't quote me again, at least not before performing a dramatic and sincere reversal of attitude.

Good luck with that.
Kit.
 
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Re: [2017-12-08] Healthcare

Postby JosieQ. » Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:45 pm

Kit. wrote:Let's start from the very two first words of your post: "You buy...". They mean that someone called "you" exchanges a privilege of exclusive access to something that is called "money" for a a privilege of exclusive access to something that is called "goods".


Holy sweet jesus is this ever pedantic, masquerading-as-smart-but-dumb-as-fuck garbage. Money isn't a privilege of exclusive access. You trade labor for it, or goods. It's not raining from heaven. It boggles my mind to even try to think of the point you are TRYING to make, because you haven't made it, and it's as usual buried in your vague, overly-wordy, defining-but-saying-nothing gibberish. You stupid idiot.

Kit. wrote:Unfortunately, your post was neither civil nor rational. If you want to describe how you post looked like, yes, "childish" is a right word. "Insulting"? That means effect. So far, your posts haven't managed to achieve that effect, but maybe later, with someone else.


The post was civil and rational, saying it wasn't doesn't make it true. You stupid idiot.

(Also really? "I know you are but what am I"? He calls you childish and insulting, you say "NO U LOL but actually you have failed to achieve the affect in insulting me, aha ha, because I am so unflappable and unmoved." Do you hear yourself and how ridiculous you sound? Do you really? I don't think you do.)

Kit. wrote:If you want to hear my opinion, change your attitude and ask for my opinion. But don't forget to specify the topic.


Because you are the center of the universe, and people coming onto this board should say "Before I post something on communism, can I get Kit's opinion?" What? The fuck? He never indicated wanting to hear your idiot opinion (nor did I), so telling him to ask for it is hilarious. He was quite obviously replying to the topic of communism, and Astrogirl was the admitted communist so he wasn't even talking TO or ABOUT you, and then you come on being a dick because that's apparently what gets you off, and he says don't bother to share your opinion if you're gonna be a dick, and you say if you want my opinion change your attitude and ask for it? Haha what?

Snodgrass wrote:
Kit. wrote:Please don't quote me again, at least not before performing a dramatic and sincere reversal of attitude.

Good luck with that.


You snarky stupid idiot. So smug just wow. You have an erection right now, I bet.

Sorry to be repetitive with the "stupid idiot" bit, but I feel it warrants repeating. You have this appearance of intelligence, and there's clearly intelligence somewhere in there, but you're absolutely terrible at arguing a point. I mean, even if you were doing it without your hypocritical, smug, baby-bitch jibes, your posts are just bad. Even if they weren't only there for you to get off on yourself, which they seem to be, they are awfully rambling, poorly-stated, and bad. You clearly have high ideas about stuff in your head, but let me tell you friend, they are not coming across. In addition to being rude and irritating, you're also very vague and like to bury your point in a bunch of rambling nonsense of disjointed words and ideas that you never really tie together. So I feel you need to be "stupid idiot"ed so that you know that you are not, indeed, coming across as the genius you think you are.

How about you grow a pair and just state outright what you believe in. Communism? Capitalism? Barter? Thievery? You scoff ever so cleverly at what you think is stupid while not saying what you think will actually work. Not surprising for a guy like you. Always gotta be on the offensive tearing shit down, can't say what you actually believe in because someone might tear IT down, better to just ridicule everything. Thin shield buddy.

If someone asks you if you like rainy days, I imagine your answer goes something like this: "Well for in order for it to "rain", water has to condense into "clouds" and then grow heavy enough to fall to the earth. The "earth" which humans live on, vis-à-vis survive on, quid pro quo condensation barometric pressure, status quo exempli gratia Huffelpuff Snorlax."

Just say if you fucking like rainy days or not. Don't define concepts and words that we all already fucking understand. Don't talk down to people with every fucking breath just to get yourself off. Is it possible? Can you do it? Can you act like a human being and actually communicate? Or is it all just defensive dancing around while you jerk yourself off?

No but, for reals, I think we all really are being trolled by the most expert of trolls. This is a very good troll. No one's this smart-but-dumb. Troll of the year award to you, my friend. Where should I send the trophy?
JosieQ.
 

Re: [2017-12-08] Healthcare

Postby JosieQ. » Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:58 pm

Cue response:

"My replies are fabulous and genius, not dumb! If you don't get them it's because YOU'RE dumb, I explain myself perfectly, you have a small mind unable to grasp complex ideas!!"

There, did that for you. Now you can concentrate on simple replies that actually say things you believe in. If it helps you, please do imagine that I am dumb, dumb, stupid, far stupider than you. I know you have been doing this for everyone you speak to, I know you think you're the absolute best brain on the board because it is obvious in your abject disdain, but I mean go even lower than that. Pretend I'm barely literate. Make it simple as possible. Short sentences. "I believe in capitalism," bam, simple.
JosieQ.
 

Re: [2017-12-08] Healthcare

Postby Kit. » Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:45 am

JosieQ. wrote:
Kit. wrote:Let's start from the very two first words of your post: "You buy...". They mean that someone called "you" exchanges a privilege of exclusive access to something that is called "money" for a a privilege of exclusive access to something that is called "goods".


Holy sweet jesus is this ever pedantic, masquerading-as-smart-but-dumb-as-fuck garbage. Money isn't a privilege of exclusive access. You trade labor for it, or goods. It's not raining from heaven. It boggles my mind to even try to think of the point you are TRYING to make, because you haven't made it, and it's as usual buried in your vague, overly-wordy, defining-but-saying-nothing gibberish. You stupid idiot.

Kit. wrote:Unfortunately, your post was neither civil nor rational. If you want to describe how you post looked like, yes, "childish" is a right word. "Insulting"? That means effect. So far, your posts haven't managed to achieve that effect, but maybe later, with someone else.


The post was civil and rational, saying it wasn't doesn't make it true. You stupid idiot.

(Also really? "I know you are but what am I"? He calls you childish and insulting, you say "NO U LOL but actually you have failed to achieve the affect in insulting me, aha ha, because I am so unflappable and unmoved." Do you hear yourself and how ridiculous you sound? Do you really? I don't think you do.)

Kit. wrote:If you want to hear my opinion, change your attitude and ask for my opinion. But don't forget to specify the topic.


Because you are the center of the universe, and people coming onto this board should say "Before I post something on communism, can I get Kit's opinion?" What? The fuck? He never indicated wanting to hear your idiot opinion (nor did I), so telling him to ask for it is hilarious. He was quite obviously replying to the topic of communism, and Astrogirl was the admitted communist so he wasn't even talking TO or ABOUT you, and then you come on being a dick because that's apparently what gets you off, and he says don't bother to share your opinion if you're gonna be a dick, and you say if you want my opinion change your attitude and ask for it? Haha what?

Snodgrass wrote:
Kit. wrote:Please don't quote me again, at least not before performing a dramatic and sincere reversal of attitude.

Good luck with that.


You snarky stupid idiot. So smug just wow. You have an erection right now, I bet.

Sorry to be repetitive with the "stupid idiot" bit, but I feel it warrants repeating. You have this appearance of intelligence, and there's clearly intelligence somewhere in there, but you're absolutely terrible at arguing a point. I mean, even if you were doing it without your hypocritical, smug, baby-bitch jibes, your posts are just bad. Even if they weren't only there for you to get off on yourself, which they seem to be, they are awfully rambling, poorly-stated, and bad. You clearly have high ideas about stuff in your head, but let me tell you friend, they are not coming across. In addition to being rude and irritating, you're also very vague and like to bury your point in a bunch of rambling nonsense of disjointed words and ideas that you never really tie together. So I feel you need to be "stupid idiot"ed so that you know that you are not, indeed, coming across as the genius you think you are.

How about you grow a pair and just state outright what you believe in. Communism? Capitalism? Barter? Thievery? You scoff ever so cleverly at what you think is stupid while not saying what you think will actually work. Not surprising for a guy like you. Always gotta be on the offensive tearing shit down, can't say what you actually believe in because someone might tear IT down, better to just ridicule everything. Thin shield buddy.

If someone asks you if you like rainy days, I imagine your answer goes something like this: "Well for in order for it to "rain", water has to condense into "clouds" and then grow heavy enough to fall to the earth. The "earth" which humans live on, vis-à-vis survive on, quid pro quo condensation barometric pressure, status quo exempli gratia Huffelpuff Snorlax."

Just say if you fucking like rainy days or not. Don't define concepts and words that we all already fucking understand. Don't talk down to people with every fucking breath just to get yourself off. Is it possible? Can you do it? Can you act like a human being and actually communicate? Or is it all just defensive dancing around while you jerk yourself off?

No but, for reals, I think we all really are being trolled by the most expert of trolls. This is a very good troll. No one's this smart-but-dumb. Troll of the year award to you, my friend. Where should I send the trophy?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
Kit.
 
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Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:22 am

Re: [2017-12-08] Healthcare

Postby JosieQ. » Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:13 am

What a surprise. What an absolutely shocking, annihilating argument. Just wow. I am destroyed.

Well, at least you kept it simple for once. I mean you're a petty baby coward, but you did keep it simple. That's progress.
JosieQ.
 

Re: [2017-12-08] Healthcare

Postby Astrogirl » Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:02 pm

Snodgrass wrote:You buy seeds and plant them. You water them, you weed the plant, you protect it from insects. Your money and time and effort has grown you 10 tomatoes.

The state comes and takes your tomatoes, distributes them to your neighbors, and gives you two back. You are expected to be grateful that they have given you something that belonged to you in the first place.

It doesn't matter whether or not communism "works". It's irrelevant whether or not you can survive, or even thrive, on those two tomatoes. Your labor has just been stolen and given away without your consent. That is slavery.

Slavery is evil, communism is slavery. Communism is evil. This is irrefutable, logical fact.

Capitalism fans have the weirdest fantasies about communism. My grandparents grew tomatoes and the state never took them away. The state didn't even take their chicken's eggs or their pork while those were still rationed shortly after the war.

Here is something that is real:

You study computer science at university. You put in your time and effort and in some countries also a lot of money. You get your master of science.

You start working for a software company as a consultant. Your employer charges the customer 800€/day for your work. You get 240€/day. You are expected to be grateful that you have been given something that belonged to you in the first place. Also loyal.

It doesn't matter whether or not capitalism 'works". It's irrelevant whether or not you can survive, or even thrive, on those 240€/day. Your labor has just been stolen and given away to the shareholders without your consent. That is not really slavery, but according to your definition it is, and it's bad anyway.

Slavery is evil. This is not slavery, but still theft. Theft is also pretty evil. Capitalism is theft. Capitalism is evil. This is irrefutable, logical fact.
Microaggression? Microaggression!
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Re: [2017-12-08] Healthcare

Postby Astrogirl » Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:06 pm

NeatNit wrote:Can any of you say you've learned something from having this discussion?

Not so far. I was interested in hearing some things from JosieQ. and asked questions accordingly, but they opted not to answer and instead write walls of text just repeating that mandatory health insurance is evil.
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