Sherlock Holmes

We've read at least one, and we'll prove it!
User avatar
smiley_cow
polite but murderous
Posts: 6514
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: The vast and desolate prairies

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by smiley_cow »

Edminster wrote:
smiley_cow wrote:The only issue I take with this argument is that you're saying that straight is the default sexuality.
Whether you want to see it or not, heterosexual is the default for written work from way back when. You cannot cannot cannot look at things written during a different era and assume that the worldview is identical to ours; believing otherwise leads to an incomplete understanding at best and a total distortion of the underlying themes at worst.
I was thinking more about the Dumbledore example. Just because no sexuality is given does not make him automatically straight, that's just the prejudice people add to it. Of course something written in a time or place where the author creating a gay character would have been unthinkable is slightly different. Then again, isn't this also the time of Oscar Wilde who, though he didn't have any truly gay characters, certainly had homoerotic subtexts? And E. M. Forrester, who wrote Maurice, a gay love story, in 1913?*

Though you're right, the average book written around the time of Sherlock Holmes that didn't give it's character a romantic interest most likely wasn't intended to be gay.

*Admittedly, it was published later, but it was still written in a time where this sort of thing was unthinkable.
DonRetrasado wrote:Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow? I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose... Bitcoin.

User avatar
LordRetard
The Most Retardedest
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:44 pm
Location: My Parents' Basement

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by LordRetard »

The Dumbledore thing bothered me because she went back to her stories and added a subtext to it. Aside from that:

One of the big things that bothers me is the supposed homosexual subtext in Herman Melville. Certainly he does make a lot out of the subject of male bonding, and, perhaps he may have been homosexual himself (although there's nothing in the historical record to show that, and his failed marriage certainly doesn't prove it). But if you take people's word for it then a number of his stories are about homosexuality. And, if you look at it from a modern perspective, it does seem really, really gay. But that's exactly the problem! Herman Melville lived during the 19th century, and spent much of his life as a sailor. He had a very different life in a very different place. I don't know why people are always going back and saying every single historical and literary figure was gay. It simply doesn't make any sense.

On a similar topic, neurotic people don't have to be geniuses, geniuses don't have to have deep, personal flaws, etc. It's all unnecessary speculation when to some degree we know the truth.

User avatar
rustypup
Indignant Newshound
Posts: 241
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:26 am
Location: Nullus Pixius Demonica

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by rustypup »

  • Social misfit.
    Dependency issues.
    Preferred the company of men.
    Enjoyed playing dressing up.
You could understand where the confusion comes in. Yes, cultural practices have moved on somewhat, (although London is still rife with men's clubs), but you can't exactly whine if a contemporary happens to give voice to the misconception.

By the same token, any westerner visiting India for the first time and witnessing the roving gangs of heavies holding hands is going to suffer a momentary cultural feedback hiccup.... just long enough to lose a wallet and maybe a few teeth...
Half dachsund, half sneaky neighbour's dog - all nose.

User avatar
AHMETxRock
Spam-Bot Trollop
Posts: 5515
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:54 am
Location: Box of Cereal.
Contact:

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by AHMETxRock »

I agree with Ed for agreeing with me. Practically put, there is an abyssmal chance of Sherlock being written as more than just being close friends, and when it was written it no one would have tolerated it to have gotten so popular. Examining it from our perspective isn't the same.

We can argue about "default" sexuality. I can say I am extremely biased without guilt. Just because it isn't default doesn't make it defective or wrong in any way. Biologically speaking it takes copulation between a male and female to continue reproduction and have the species live, so practically speaking there is no way it isn't default in general. Take that with a grain of Nackle, however. When I say that I know it can be construed as an arguement for while being gay is "immoral" but I don't think it's an actually valid answer. Insinuating a person who is born differently has something wrong with them is counter intuitive the the principles of biologiy and evolution, which is where my statement originates from anyways.

Being different isn't bad at all. I think it's actually wrong to insinuate he is gay. He is a fictional character, and the works are not, if rarely, Twilight-eque narrations which expresses his desires. We would rely on assumptions and stereotypes to determine if he was gay or bisexual or transgender. I have stated before I have only read a few of the works of the Sherlock Holmes series, but I doubt I have read such a poor sampling as to be mistaken on this matter. In the movie at least he has expressed interest in a woman, and the books likely have something similar to this, even if it's hollywood fucking around with the source material.

You are free to INTERPRET literature. The beauty of writing is that many different ideas can be expressed and interpreted, which is one of the reasons it is one of the main things attacked in 1984. However, the idea of canon within the stories is resolute. The story could have easily been about homosexuality. The conch shell in Lord of the flies could have been a symbol of motherhood and vagina too if you want to think of it like that, and you could say that when the boys became tribal they indulged in sexual acts as well. But it's really not there.
Just like an std, will never fully go away.

User avatar
freako104
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:30 am
Location: Fredneck Maryland
Contact:

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by freako104 »

I always assumed he was heterosexual. It may have been fanfictions and movies but I thought he had a girlfriend though Sir Arthur Conan Doyle may not have canonised it
This isn't really happening!
Spreading the madness of Cthulhu. One mind at a time. Starting with my own

User avatar
smiley_cow
polite but murderous
Posts: 6514
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: The vast and desolate prairies

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by smiley_cow »

I can't say for certain if he's ever actually been in a relationship or not in the books since I've not read them all, but I don't think he has. Usually he's paired up with Irene Addler (the recent film comes to mind) and though he spoke highly of her, and certainly had a lot of respect for her*, nothing ever happened between them in the original cannon.

*I am guessing his feelings went beyond respect since he accepted a photo of her for payment from his client, but that's just my interpretation.
DonRetrasado wrote:Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow? I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose... Bitcoin.

User avatar
AHMETxRock
Spam-Bot Trollop
Posts: 5515
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:54 am
Location: Box of Cereal.
Contact:

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by AHMETxRock »

Also, it's totally such a minor facet of his personality whether or not he wanted to do men or women. He could have liked women with strap ons doing his behind for all we know, but totally disgusted at the idea of man sex. He starved himself, he could have been sad and lonely. He could have deemed the whole shebang retarded and solved mysteries.

The only reason it's notable to mention is because we keep mentioning it.
Just like an std, will never fully go away.

User avatar
Cirtur
Licensed Troll Pornographer
Posts: 9964
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:13 pm
Location: Europe
Contact:

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by Cirtur »

But we all like coke right?

User avatar
AHMETxRock
Spam-Bot Trollop
Posts: 5515
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:54 am
Location: Box of Cereal.
Contact:

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by AHMETxRock »

Fuck you man. Pepsi is the shit. Forget the fact most people can't tell the difference between the two in a blind taste test. And screw you in the future for saying you meant drugs too. Bust a cap in your head, don't you question what I read, I don't give a damn about what you claim you said.
Just like an std, will never fully go away.

User avatar
Cirtur
Licensed Troll Pornographer
Posts: 9964
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:13 pm
Location: Europe
Contact:

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by Cirtur »

Pepsi has a shitty logo, looks like someone decided they needed to get with the future and the best way to do that was to do some vectors.

NO HEART TO IT


NOT LIKE COCA COLA®

User avatar
AHMETxRock
Spam-Bot Trollop
Posts: 5515
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:54 am
Location: Box of Cereal.
Contact:

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by AHMETxRock »

Who the hell needs heart when you getting paid?
Criticize their art the day you can do the same.
Just like an std, will never fully go away.

User avatar
Cirtur
Licensed Troll Pornographer
Posts: 9964
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:13 pm
Location: Europe
Contact:

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by Cirtur »

Money doesn't fill you up it weighs you down down down
A fistful of dollars doesn't make you less of a clown

And if you criticise my criticism you're being hypocritical
Sometimes you're so stupid it's like you're being satirical.

User avatar
AHMETxRock
Spam-Bot Trollop
Posts: 5515
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:54 am
Location: Box of Cereal.
Contact:

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by AHMETxRock »

I understand what you got against your critics.
But I feel it's justified when seeing your lyrics.

You act like stuttering is some god damned gift.
If you're never weighed down you'll never appreciate lift.

Justice is the only thing I weild in my fist.
Pepsi is the best; Coke-Cola shouldn't even exist.

Word.
Just like an std, will never fully go away.

User avatar
FengharTheNord
Avord the Nord
Posts: 2365
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:48 pm
Location: location location
Contact:

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by FengharTheNord »

Guys.

Guys.

Guys.

I was just about to go through all the trouble of writing a big long rap and recording it and shit when I realized

Guys

I realized

I am not good at rapping. Like. It's actually very hard. And should be left to people who are good at it.

Like

guys

like not you.

ok?
DonRetrasado wrote:
Amerika wrote:
DonRetrasado wrote:Well you'd need a sock as big as an airplane to hide my penis. An airplane the size of the universe.
Wait I live in a universe.
bow chicka bow wow

User avatar
LordRetard
The Most Retardedest
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:44 pm
Location: My Parents' Basement

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Post by LordRetard »

g-spot rocks the g-spot
g-spot rocks the g-spot
what do I rock
g-spot
where do I rock it
g-spot

Post Reply